[IndianPsychologists] sex addiction-an entity?
To Psychologist Indian, navneet.edu@gmail.com, shambhu_man@yahoo.com, navphilpsy@yahoo.com, rochelle9@gmail.com
Hi,
It seems this thread started due to the query from : Shri Rochelle Suri, PhD, MFT
Firstly I would like to know whether he is only indulging in reading sex related material or is actually indulging in physical sex. The line of therapy will be different in as these are two different addiction. To understand sex mania on e has to read Nymphomania in detail. and many good sites give remedy too though difficult.
Firstly I would like to know whether he is only indulging in reading sex related material or is actually indulging in physical sex. The line of therapy will be different in as these are two different addiction. To understand sex mania on e has to read Nymphomania in detail. and many good sites give remedy too though difficult.
Besides that if he becomes interested in Osho discourses ( enough CD's/ DVD's ) are available then too he can find solution.
To my mind over indulgence with legal partner or consenting partner keeping in mind safety ( from HIV etc,) and without disturbing career routine is OK. And one would automatically slow down as time passes. Rather we have to help him in removing his guilt if any if he has extraordinary needs.
But nymphomania is different where the lust becomes uncontrollable and person looses control any time , any where , indulges with any one , does not care abt safe sex, does not care about career, does not care about what law says ( rape/ adultery, public display/ minor/ child partner) etc etc. Very difficult case and ..........
Alok Tholiya
To: IndianPsychologists@yahoogroups.co.in
CC: navneet.edu@gmail.com; shambhu_man@yahoo.com
From: navphilpsy@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 20:34:29 +0800
Subject: Re: [IndianPsychologists] sex addiction-an entity?
To: IndianPsychologists@yahoogroups.co.in
CC: navneet.edu@gmail.com; shambhu_man@yahoo.com
From: navphilpsy@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 20:34:29 +0800
Subject: Re: [IndianPsychologists] sex addiction-an entity?
Hi,
I have some concerns with what you have written here.
Hobby is a lighthearted activity which we like to do for recreation, but which is not an essential requirement for our psychological-physiological well being in the absence of which we can be victims of psychological or physiological disorders. For example, gardening for a person can be one such hobby.
If hobby turns into passion, then it is essential for well being. For example, it can be painting or philosophy for someone.
Sex is pleasurable and also used for recreation, but is not as simple as hobby. Sex-need has a biological basis, and it's absence though is not threat to the survival, but is not good for psychological well-being.
And please don't say that one with excess sexual energy 'uses' it for rape...!!! May be this is not what you intend to say, but I think, you should be a little careful with using words... Rapist is a person insensitive towards the pain of other under his/her obsession with lust. All people who have over-sexual energy are not insensitive or unethical persons to become rapists; they might be very good human beings and yes, scientists too...!
There should be no 'sex-addiction', I am inclined to think, if there is appropriate satisfaction of sex-desire. No condemnation of this desire (under the influence of some religious sects), and no negative attitude towards sex is required (mind you, some ladies unconsciously hate their kids because they are the result of 'dirty' sex...). This cleaning of mind is required at psychological level. If there is lack of knowledge of sex-techniques there are good books and sexologists. If there is problem at physiological level, then physicians are to be consulted.
If sex-partner is simply not available for a healthy adult, it is a sorry situation, and then catharasis (may be by masturbation) and channalization/diversion (by indulging in sports, running, e.g.) is required.
Still, sex-addiction in one sense can develop - in the form of development of dysfunctional sexual habits (like watching too much of porn to disturb one's sexual neurochemistry and social, professional functioning). On such instance, I have already written, in my earlier response, for how to manage this situation.
Navneet Chopra
--- On Sat, 4/8/12, Harish Kumar From: Harish Kumar Subject: Re: [IndianPsychologists] sex addiction-an entity? To: "IndianPsychologists@yahoogroups.co.in" Cc: "IndianPsychologists@yahoogroups.co.in" Date: Saturday, 4 August, 2012, 1:07 PM
Hello,
First of all I want to appreciate everybody to bring this topic in lime light for discussion. Here I want to say that we all have lots of energy with in us. It differs individual to individual where one a
is using it. Sex is called as human's biological need.but we need to understand wether its our need, source of pleasure or passion ( hobby). I am using these words because these are common with all we run for e.g. Craving for money, adventurous hobbies or social work etc. My mean to say that we should have the power to discriminate among need, source of pleasure, hobby etc and what is our need not the single source of happiness. As mention above its a biological need not a single source of pleasure. If one make it as hobby then it becomes addiction latter psychological problem. All the addictions to wrong things prone to declination ( here wrong means inappropriate choice for addiction). When we use our energy on anything it provides us sources also whether it's wrong or right. Example- a person using his energy to calm down his/her sexual addiction. I want conclude it with that we have a great amount of energy those who is it for welfare of society they called as saints, those who use it discoveries called as scientist etc. on the other side those use it as to satisfy hunger of sex called as rapist or indulged in others way to harm society or self.
Thanks
Sent from my iPad
can we say that the line within which an individual derives pleasure without affecting his physical, mental and social health, daily routines and performance on job is the line of non-addiction and beyond this line is what is called addiction and the individual becomes a patient needy of interventions to cure?
ramasubramanian
From: "rochelle9@gmail.com" <rochelle9@gmail.com> To: IndianPsychologists@yahoogroups.co.in Sent: Thursday, 2 August 2012 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [IndianPsychologists] sex addiction-an entity?
Hello Navneet,
You raise some interesting points about sex being a normal need and that every person's "need" differs, just like it does for levels of thirst, hunger, etc. I am curious, though, if and where you draw the line between satiation of sexual appetite and addiction. As far as my thinking goes, I am inclined to the idiom of "everything in moderation". This is mostly why I think that when a person's appetite or desire for something is beyond moderation, and, the person is willing to indulge in pornography to fulfill that desire, it can become problematic. Is this person trying to fill a void with an over-attachment to something? Is this person just purely satiated on the basis of pleasure that is received by the pleasure centers of the brain being stimulated? This is a hard dialogue to have over the internet and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. There is so much of "addiction" happening in today's generation, and of different types. I think simplifying addiction as perhaps a misinterpretation of a person's level of need by society, may not be very helpful. At least it isn't for me. Kind regards. Rochelle www.rochellesuri.com
On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Navneet <navphilpsy@yahoo.com> wrote:
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Hi Navneet,
I like the two characteristics that you have come up with re: the definition of addiction. It makes sense to me. I think addiction, sex addiction in particular, is becoming more rampant in societies, world wide, which is why I find it hard to simplify it as just an excessive need that needs to be satiated just like hunger, thirst, etc. Thus, as Anand mentioned, it does not surprise me that the DSM V recognizes it as a critical situation and has included it in its upcoming version.
Thanks,
Rochelle
www.rochellesuri.com
I like the two characteristics that you have come up with re: the definition of addiction. It makes sense to me. I think addiction, sex addiction in particular, is becoming more rampant in societies, world wide, which is why I find it hard to simplify it as just an excessive need that needs to be satiated just like hunger, thirst, etc. Thus, as Anand mentioned, it does not surprise me that the DSM V recognizes it as a critical situation and has included it in its upcoming version.
Thanks,
Rochelle
www.rochellesuri.com
On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Anand Thaman <anand_1282006@yahoo.com> wrote:
Navneet <navphilpsy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>hi Rochelle!
>
>How should we go for defining 'addiction'? I mean, what can be the features of the definition for 'addiction'?
>
>I guess, these can be following. (Please do intimate if you disagree, or want to add...).
>
>
>* One is "artificially-dependent" on the entity, say on morning tea, and in its absence can't work efficiently or feel good internally/psychologically.
>
>Note that the dependence should be 'induced' dependence [e.g. the dependence in modern culture on Coke/Pepsi by many people - which is not natural. It is a created/induced need, to a large extent, by advertizements by companies; otherwise we traditionally have much better alternative - lassi, shikanjavi (sweet lemon-water)], not a 'natural' dependence, e.g. our dependence on food, water, air, etc. is natural - so I would not include this kind of dependece in 'artificial-dependence'.
>
>* The consumption of the entity is actually 'harmful' to the individual.
>
> "Harmful" in terms of damaging to the physical health, mental/psychological health, (also 'spiritual health' - if one agrees on spiritual terms), etc. And the harm may not be visible in short term, but actually exists in the long run. I also include the case if consumption is disruptive for the overall harmony of the person.
>
>On these grounds, a person with naturally more sexual-appetite is not having 'artificial dependence' and such indulgence (with the obvious consent of the partner) is not harmful to him (rather I think is helpful to him to get more pleasure... why to fear from pleasure if it is not leading to any harmful side-effect? Sorry to Buddhist idea of non-attachment... a thing which is existent for decades in one's life - can't be said to be 'momentary' - the way Buddhism tries to call every sensation, desire, etc.)
>
>But if it is artificially induced (say, by viagra) and is damaging the person or disrupting the overall harmony - then I will agree to call such situation as 'sex addiction' and will agree that work has to be done here.
>
>Such distinctions, however, I think should be maintained while dealing with this issue.
>
>Navneet Chopra
>
DSM V is considering to include sex addiction in its manual. They have also described symptomology. For informafion see website of APA.
Regards
Anand
Sent from my Motorola phone.
Regards
Anand
Sent from my Motorola phone.
Navneet <navphilpsy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>hi Rochelle!
>
>How should we go for defining 'addiction'? I mean, what can be the features of the definition for 'addiction'?
>
>I guess, these can be following. (Please do intimate if you disagree, or want to add...).
>
>
>* One is "artificially-dependent" on the entity, say on morning tea, and in its absence can't work efficiently or feel good internally/psychologically.
>
>Note that the dependence should be 'induced' dependence [e.g. the dependence in modern culture on Coke/Pepsi by many people - which is not natural. It is a created/induced need, to a large extent, by advertizements by companies; otherwise we traditionally have much better alternative - lassi, shikanjavi (sweet lemon-water)], not a 'natural' dependence, e.g. our dependence on food, water, air, etc. is natural - so I would not include this kind of dependece in 'artificial-dependence'.
>
>* The consumption of the entity is actually 'harmful' to the individual.
>
> "Harmful" in terms of damaging to the physical health, mental/psychological health, (also 'spiritual health' - if one agrees on spiritual terms), etc. And the harm may not be visible in short term, but actually exists in the long run. I also include the case if consumption is disruptive for the overall harmony of the person.
>
>On these grounds, a person with naturally more sexual-appetite is not having 'artificial dependence' and such indulgence (with the obvious consent of the partner) is not harmful to him (rather I think is helpful to him to get more pleasure... why to fear from pleasure if it is not leading to any harmful side-effect? Sorry to Buddhist idea of non-attachment... a thing which is existent for decades in one's life - can't be said to be 'momentary' - the way Buddhism tries to call every sensation, desire, etc.)
>
>But if it is artificially induced (say, by viagra) and is damaging the person or disrupting the overall harmony - then I will agree to call such situation as 'sex addiction' and will agree that work has to be done here.
>
>Such distinctions, however, I think should be maintained while dealing with this issue.
>
>Navneet Chopra
>
>--- On Thu, 2/8/12, rochelle9@gmail.com <rochelle9@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>From: rochelle9@gmail.com <rochelle9@gmail.com>
>
>
>From: rochelle9@gmail.com <rochelle9@gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [IndianPsychologists] sex addiction-an entity?
>To: IndianPsychologists@yahoogroups.co.in
>To: IndianPsychologists@yahoogroups.co.in
>Date: Thursday, 2 August, 2012, 9:36 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Hello Navneet,
>
>You raise some interesting points about sex being a normal need and that every person's "need" differs, just like it does for levels of thirst, hunger, etc. I am curious, though, if and where you draw the line between satiation of sexual appetite and addiction. As far as my thinking goes, I am inclined to the idiom of "everything in moderation". This is mostly why I think that when a person's appetite or desire for something is beyond moderation, and, the person is willing to indulge in pornography to fulfill that desire, it can become problematic. Is this person trying to fill a void with an over-attachment to something? Is this person just purely satiated on the basis of pleasure that is received by the pleasure centers of the brain being stimulated?
>
>This is a hard dialogue to have over the internet and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. There is so much of "addiction" happening in today's generation, and of different types. I think simplifying addiction as perhaps a misinterpretation of a person's level of need by society, may not be very helpful. At least it isn't for me.
>
>Kind regards.
>Rochelle
>www.rochellesuri.com
>
>
>On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Navneet <navphilpsy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi,
>
>I think some basics need to be cleared, e.g. what is the meaning of 'addiction to sex'?
>
>Sex is a normal physiological-psychological need, unlike the need of cigarette or drugs - for which we use the term 'addiction' since the latter are pleasurable but harmful. For a normal physiological or psychological need, e.g. for food or water, if enough quantity to satisfy one's natural need is available, then the person remains satisfied and doesn't develop any psychopathology pertaining to them (mind you - it can be otherwise, think of fasting if done too much...). I believe, same is with sex. If there is availability of appropriate sexual-partner, both partners are physically healthy, and the couple knows enough about the sexual techniques to have a 'fullfilling' sex - there is no reason to develop complexities for sexual need. And there should not be development of 'addiction' to sex. Just like some people feel more hunger and eat more, some people may have better sexual appetite and may want to have sex more often than other people - there
> nothing wrong about it (rather it can be blessing for the couple...they are capable of enjoying more). If there is a good match of sexual-appetite between the partners - it's healthy, smooth. If not, then they have to consult some sex-expert regarding how to manage the difference of sex-appetite.
>
>A few facts about 'online sexual activity' also needs to be clarified. If the person watching too much of porn, or is indulged in too much of erotic-chat... then that is a problem since the neuro-chemistry related to sexuality might get disturbed. Giving gap in such excessive indulgance is required, may be by engaging in something other interesting activity (some sport, running, gyming, swimming, etc.) or by creating some distraction (from online sexual activity) in some other way - e.g. by delibrate planning to have the presence of other people in one's privacy.
>
>One needs to understand - just like fantasies about some tasty food can never satisfy one's hunger, similarly sexual-fantasies without a real partner can't satisfy one's sexual-hunger, a real partner is required. Fantasies may add the spice but can't satisfy, without a partner.
>Online sexual indulgence without a partner can merely 'stimulate' but never 'satisfy' and create an unsatiated, illusory state of mind and then one wants more and more, without end...
>If one gets 'really satisfied' he/she doesn't need 'more' for a sufficiently long time, just like a satiated person with food doesn't demand any more food for a sufficiently long time.
>
>
>Navneet Chopra
>
>--- On Sun, 29/7/12, rochelle9@gmail.com <rochelle9@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>From: rochelle9@gmail.com <rochelle9@gmail.com>
>Subject: [IndianPsychologists] sex addiction therapist referral - please reply back channel
>To: IndianPsychologists@yahoogroups.co.in
>Date: Sunday, 29 July, 2012, 10:50 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>Dear Colleagues,
>
>There is a potential client who is a male in his early 30s, and has been indulging in unhealthy amounts of online sexual activity. He is seeking a therapist who has expertise and knowledge in this area. Client believes he may have an addiction to sex. Any leads would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Kind regards,
>Rochelle Suri, PhD, MFT
>
>--
>www.rochellesuri.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>www.rochellesuri.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>You raise some interesting points about sex being a normal need and that every person's "need" differs, just like it does for levels of thirst, hunger, etc. I am curious, though, if and where you draw the line between satiation of sexual appetite and addiction. As far as my thinking goes, I am inclined to the idiom of "everything in moderation". This is mostly why I think that when a person's appetite or desire for something is beyond moderation, and, the person is willing to indulge in pornography to fulfill that desire, it can become problematic. Is this person trying to fill a void with an over-attachment to something? Is this person just purely satiated on the basis of pleasure that is received by the pleasure centers of the brain being stimulated?
>
>This is a hard dialogue to have over the internet and I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. There is so much of "addiction" happening in today's generation, and of different types. I think simplifying addiction as perhaps a misinterpretation of a person's level of need by society, may not be very helpful. At least it isn't for me.
>
>Kind regards.
>Rochelle
>www.rochellesuri.com
>
>
>On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 2:47 PM, Navneet <navphilpsy@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi,
>
>I think some basics need to be cleared, e.g. what is the meaning of 'addiction to sex'?
>
>Sex is a normal physiological-psychological need, unlike the need of cigarette or drugs - for which we use the term 'addiction' since the latter are pleasurable but harmful. For a normal physiological or psychological need, e.g. for food or water, if enough quantity to satisfy one's natural need is available, then the person remains satisfied and doesn't develop any psychopathology pertaining to them (mind you - it can be otherwise, think of fasting if done too much...). I believe, same is with sex. If there is availability of appropriate sexual-partner, both partners are physically healthy, and the couple knows enough about the sexual techniques to have a 'fullfilling' sex - there is no reason to develop complexities for sexual need. And there should not be development of 'addiction' to sex. Just like some people feel more hunger and eat more, some people may have better sexual appetite and may want to have sex more often than other people - there
> nothing wrong about it (rather it can be blessing for the couple...they are capable of enjoying more). If there is a good match of sexual-appetite between the partners - it's healthy, smooth. If not, then they have to consult some sex-expert regarding how to manage the difference of sex-appetite.
>
>A few facts about 'online sexual activity' also needs to be clarified. If the person watching too much of porn, or is indulged in too much of erotic-chat... then that is a problem since the neuro-chemistry related to sexuality might get disturbed. Giving gap in such excessive indulgance is required, may be by engaging in something other interesting activity (some sport, running, gyming, swimming, etc.) or by creating some distraction (from online sexual activity) in some other way - e.g. by delibrate planning to have the presence of other people in one's privacy.
>
>One needs to understand - just like fantasies about some tasty food can never satisfy one's hunger, similarly sexual-fantasies without a real partner can't satisfy one's sexual-hunger, a real partner is required. Fantasies may add the spice but can't satisfy, without a partner.
>Online sexual indulgence without a partner can merely 'stimulate' but never 'satisfy' and create an unsatiated, illusory state of mind and then one wants more and more, without end...
>If one gets 'really satisfied' he/she doesn't need 'more' for a sufficiently long time, just like a satiated person with food doesn't demand any more food for a sufficiently long time.
>
>
>Navneet Chopra
>
>--- On Sun, 29/7/12, rochelle9@gmail.com <rochelle9@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>From: rochelle9@gmail.com <rochelle9@gmail.com>
>Subject: [IndianPsychologists] sex addiction therapist referral - please reply back channel
>To: IndianPsychologists@yahoogroups.co.in
>Date: Sunday, 29 July, 2012, 10:50 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>Dear Colleagues,
>
>There is a potential client who is a male in his early 30s, and has been indulging in unhealthy amounts of online sexual activity. He is seeking a therapist who has expertise and knowledge in this area. Client believes he may have an addiction to sex. Any leads would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Kind regards,
>Rochelle Suri, PhD, MFT
>
>--
>www.rochellesuri.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>www.rochellesuri.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
www.rochellesuri.com
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